Richard Glover on ABC Drive
ABC Radio 15th August 2022
Richard Glover:
It's day 173 of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Today the Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky, has warned Russian soldiers issued at Europe's largest nuclear power station or use it as a base to shoot from that they will become a special target for Ukrainian forces.
Senator David Van is a Liberal Senator from Victoria and Chair of the Parliamentary Friends of Ukraine. He's just finished a trip to Ukraine and in addition to meeting many members of the Ukrainian Parliament, he saw where the Australian Bushmaster vehicles were being deployed, you might remember that President Zelensky when he spoke to the Australian Parliament via video link, that was his main plea for Australia. If you can do anything for us, send us these amazing vehicles of yours. These troop transport vehicles which are so good, they were so good in Afghanistan at managing to survive bomb attacks. Send them send us those he said.
So how are they being used? Well, Senator David Van has not only met lots of people as they say, but he's also seen exactly how they are being used. He's still over in Europe, where he joins us here on Senator David Van. Good afternoon, or good morning.
Senator Van:
Yeah, great to speak to you again.
Richard Glover:
Why did they want the Bushmasters in particular and what are they how they use them?
Senator Van:
So the way the Ukrainian to talk about this for is the big Soviet Army, fighting for little Soviet. They see themselves as a little Soviet army. Because they use old Soviet designed material. Some of the technology and weapons are very very good. But you know they're running out of stock so them so they need to resupply using more modern equipment, particularly NATO's fed equipment. The Bushmasters was suggested to them, not just because they're made in Victoria, but because they have a proven track record of protecting troops. And I met with the colonel who's the commanding officer of the ADF battalion. That's the battalion using mostly using them there are some others. And he came up to hug me with some very hard looking soldiers, because that's their attack force their assault troops, which go in and fight the Russians. When they try and break the line. They all came up and hugged me because their friends are still alive after three of our Bushmasters getting hit by either RPGs or any tank, mind and every one of the troops survived. They've got some really paid that's why they need this technology and more.
Richard Glover:
They've got a particularly good undercarriage, don't they that deflects the bombs outwards rather than upwards.
Senator Van:
They've got what's called a V hole. So to flex the blast from a mine or Afghanistan separate from an IED, but also they said they, at least one of them may have been two of them got hit by RPGs from the front. So they took the hit in the front and still everyone survived
Richard Glover:
Have any of them been destroyed you know all the ones that we sent still in still in use.
Senator Van:
As I said, three have been destroyed. That no no, no problem. And that's why they love them so much because every one of the troops inside them survived. Even though the vehicles fell off. I think they tried to retain one of them.
Richard Glover:
Can you tell me more generally what the mood is? There's a sense I think, a terrible sense in which I feel I do this too. I tend to read the positive stories in which the Ukrainians are beating the Russians back and when I see the converse, I kind of shut my eyes too, because I don't want to read it. What's your sense of how the battle is going?
Senator Van:
Oh, it's such a complex question to answer, because it's a huge fight, right. Make no mistake this is 1000 kilometer front. There is hundreds, or nearly hundreds of 1000s of troops fighting off against each other. It will go well for the Ukrainians if the world's supplies them with weapons they need if the world doesn't, it will go quite that way. And that's the honest my honest assessment from having been there. They desperately need more modern weaponry. They say we will win this war on technology. They'll certainly win it on bravery. And on motivation. They are so motivated. They will fight to the last man. Even taxi drivers who said they hadn't been called up yet. Were saying to me, I will go and fight. I don't care. I will go and fight.
Richard Glover:
Now obviously the West has given them quite a lot so far in your assessment. It's just not enough.
Senator Van:
It's nowhere near enough. There is there's so much more they need. They have a mandate to say as we're driving down to the Donbass to have their su 20 fours the fighter jet. There's only a handful of them left so their air force is almost decimated. The fact that it's survived this fall is just testament to how good Ukrainian pilots are. So they need more modern fighters. Now there could be the F 15 or 16 that the Americans fly in the nose. A lot of other nations fly could be the Griffins out of Sweden could be I think it's the typhoons out of UK that they need modern five chips to go to do anything. The other thing they need, particularly if they're going to do this counter offensive on person is more tanks. And one of the things I'm going to be talking about most when I get get back to Parliament, and probably before that is there's a lot of European countries with an awful lot of tanks in mothballs sitting in warehouses. That could be easily sent to UK and there's just not political will to do so. Particularly German. They've got I think the estimate is about 1000 version rather their weapon tanks sitting in warehouses. The company Rheinmetall who make our Boxer there, they have these tanks. They apparently they're willing to give them but claims that the government's just not allowing the export license. The Germans have to get off their backsides and do more to help Ukraine. I'd say the same that that French.
Richard Glover:
What's Australia's role in that though? We've got limited influence there.
Senator Van:
Well, we're incredibly well respected around the world we’re the biggest non NATO suppliers of military aid, I think we've got every right to stand up and say, “Come on everyone. Let's do more”. Because if we don't, the outcome is uncertain. Russia will win the war. And I have no doubt that they won't stop at the border of Ukraine. So the EU nations in particular, because let's face it, the Brits have done a lot. The Americans have done a lot. And a lot of the other NATO countries haven't so I think there's the EU nations seriously needs to step up and do more.
Richard Glover:
Talking to Senator David Van, he's Chair of the Parliamentary Friends of Ukraine has just been over there saying, well, lots of things including the use of Bushmasters are being put to, can we can we do more of our own bad, you know, for instance, maybe we should be replacing those three destroyed Bushmasters?
Senator Van:
We need to send in a lot more than three. The commanding officer of the battalion says he needs about another 30 to 40 such that he can keep his whole battalion safe. So if we were to do that they could take up the fight against the Russians a lot more safely. So we need to be sending more Bushmasters we also need to send them the most spare parts they the bundle part of the Bushmaster is the tyres with wheels. So we need to be sending them we need to be sending people over to teach them how to maintain them and do some maintenance because they're doing a lot of miles in them. So every car every truck, every vehicle needs maintenance, so we need to be doing more than that. We also could be sending more of the inbound one three armoured personnel carriers and the outlets both of which we're not using anymore. We sent them I think a dozen in one one threes. Why are we sending them all of them? We can't use them. The Ukrainians are using them behind the lines as ambulances mounting your rocket launchers on them. There's a lot of uses, and we've got no use for them why we hang on to them
Richard Glover:
Senator Van is with us. I want to ask David obviously about how he thinks this will be received in Canberra with with the new government. But let's listen to let's go right back to the beginning with President Volodymyr Zelenskyy spoke to the Parliament first of April and made this appeal that if you're going to do anything for us, send us the Bushmasters
President Volodymyr Zelenskyy
“… for example, you have very good personally, vehicles Bushmaster that could help Ukraine substantially other pieces of equipment that could strengthen our position in terms of our members who who have an opportunity to share this with us. We're very grateful very grateful ”
Richard Glover:
President Zelenskyy through an interpreter there and you know I suppose the it's an interesting isn't it for a country which no longer can build a motor car. If we do build this thing which in Victoria, the factory of Victoria, which is regarded
… to be continued …
